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Poking the Discourse Bear Re: “Classic” Science Fiction

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Over on Reddit someone is asking for science fiction for their precocious young reader and the people there are suggesting books that were old when that kid's grandparents were the same age as the kid, for fuck's sake if you didn't know any SF books from this millennium maybe sit this question out

John Scalzi (@scalzi.com) 2025-08-11T03:15:47.811Z

Over on Bluesky I got a lot of guff about the above post, but you know what? I 100% stand by it. I’m 56 now, and if you’re recommending the same science fiction books to a ten-year-old today that would have been recommended to me when I was a ten-year-old — and were old and kinda dated even then — I think you should seriously reconsider recommending science fiction books to young readers.

Why? Well, for just two things, either you are so far behind in your science fiction reading that you can’t think of a science fiction work from the two-and-half-decades of this millennium (not to mention possibly the three decades immediately preceding that time frame in the previous millennium) that you could recommend to a young reader, which is not great, or you have kept up with the last twenty-five years of science fiction writing and think none of it is worthy of recommendation to the youth of today. In which case, on behalf of every science fiction writer who first started publishing in this century (and all the ones who debuted before then, but have kept on writing): Rude. There’s been a lot of fantastic work in the last twenty-five years that stands at least equal to what was written before, that you could recommend to new and/or young readers of the genre. If you can’t acknowledge that, this is a you problem.

“But the kids should read the classics!” Well, one, as I wrote almost exactly five years ago, “the science fiction canon” is dead, so this is an arguable statement, especially for a casual reader; and two, even if one were to stipulate that there is an essential canon of classic works every science fiction fan should read, it does not necessarily follow that every young reader needs to read them to start off. Start young readers with interesting accessible contemporary work that brings them through the door and gets them curious as to what else is out there, at which point they may well wander back into the “classics” arm of the genre and delight in what they find there. But if that’s the only door you can show them into the genre, you’re doing them and the genre we all mutually love a disservice.

And anyway, it’s kind of ridiculous. As I said in a different Bluesky post:

Let me use another example of the basic absurdity of this: It would be like someone saying "Hey, my kid loved the K-Pop Demon Hunters soundtrack, what other K-Pop can you suggest for him" and then everyone suggesting The Kim Sisters and their contemporariesyoutu.be/SOYfHZ-oLY8

John Scalzi (@scalzi.com) 2025-08-11T12:48:18.587Z

To be clear, it’s not that the Kim Sisters aren’t cool, or unimportant to the overall history of K-Pop. They are cool, and important! But the hard swing from “Golden” to this is rough, to say the least.

And then there’s the Suck Fairy to consider, and my own complementary twist on that idea, the Sixteen Candles Problem, in which you show something you loved as a young person to a young person today, and you’re both horrified at all the problematic bullshit in the thing that your brain just plain forgot was there (seriously, don’t show Sixteen Candles to anyone born in the 21st Century without watching it first. You have forgotten how awful it actually is). So if you’re out here blithely suggesting sixty-year-old science fiction books to the youth of today, let me ask: When was the last time you read the thing you’re suggesting? Is it more than a decade? Maybe read it again? Because you may find the casual sexism/racism/other -isms are there a lot more than you remember, or the prose more wooden, or the dialogue rather more stiff, or the plots more iffy, or some combination of above.

(And if you read it and you don’t find any of those things, ask yourself: Am I a white dude who doesn’t actually have to think about racism/sexism/etc on a regular basis? Because that will maybe be a filter you need to consider. I know it’s fashionable in the current era, seeing as we now have mask-off bigots running the government, to have white dudes consider having to acknowledge that filter to be deeply unfair, but, you know. Try anyway.)

It’s all right if you love something that hasn’t aged well! Everything ages, and much of it not especially gracefully. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t important to you or that it doesn’t have value. It’s also okay to have that give you pause with regard to recommending it to someone of another, younger, generation.

But when someone asks about recommendations for their kids, you want to be helpful! Cool, here’s my suggestion: read more new stuff. And when you read it, think about from whom (and at what age) you would recommend that work. You don’t even have to buy it, just head off to the library and look through the new releases (or suggest an upcoming release for the library to acquire. Librarians like when you do that. So do authors). Then, when the question comes up, you’ll be prepared with something from this century.

If you can’t or won’t do that, then here’s another useful tip: Tell the person asking to ask a librarian for recommendations. That’s literally what librarians do! They’re really good at connecting people (and particularly kids) with books. They would be happy to do it here as well. They know what’s new, and what’s good, and what’s in the library. That kid will go home with something great (you can do this in bookstores, too, if you want to be purchasing that day).

And if you really really really really really want to recommend a decades-old book? Then reread it, have an idea of how that text and story sits right now, and when you recommend it, acknowledge and disclose it’s from another era, with all the things that come from being of that era — and then be able to articulate why you think it still has value to a young person today, beyond “well, I liked it when I was that age,” or “it’s a classic.”

Then go read some more new stuff! You deserve it.

— JS

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MaryEllenCG
20 days ago
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Alien Press Conference

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Comic by War and Peas.
Panel 1: Two green aliens are at a press conference, sitting behind microphones. One alien happily says, "Jesus? We love that guy!"
Panel 2: A human reporter with a microphone looks surprised and says, "We’ve been waiting centuries for his second coming."
Panel 3: The first alien casually responds, "Really? He comes to us every year." The second alien adds, "We invited him for cookies. What did you do?" The reporter starts to sweat.
Panel 4: Both aliens pause, looking inquisitive. One alien asks, "Wait. What did you do?" All reporters sweat.

This comic is made possible with the help of our backers on Patreon. Go to War and Peas to read more comics and find all links.

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MaryEllenCG
260 days ago
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Turns Out, It Was Cancer After All

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Last year I spent three months waiting to see if I had cancer or not.

The doctors were all pretty sure I had it. And it was going to be the kind that I probably wouldn't survive. Then, they were finally able to complete a test and I woke up from the procedure and ... didn't have cancer. Just totally didn't have it. You can go, the doctor said. We don't need to see you again for ten years.

It took me a week to even process the relief. I'm not sure I still have.

As I noted on Threads, much of yesterday felt a lot like that three months.

I was hoping for a similar outcome.

Hoping I'd wake up and all would be well.


But...


Well, now we know who's who.

Now we know who our real friends and allies are. And who isn't.

I was going to ask: So, what was it this time?

What's the excuse this time?

Was it the price of eggs?

Cost of gas at the pump?

Wait, wait, she didn't have any ground game in swing states wah wah wah? Hated her laugh?

No, it's Gaza? Yeah, it's Gaza isn't it?

What's the excuse this time? 

But, you know what? It turns out I honestly don't care. I mean, when it's terminal cancer, do you really care how you caught it?

I don't care what the excuse is this time around and ultimately, it doesn't matter anyway. Every single thing lefties claim they care about? In the end, none of it mattered enough.

And now, we've lost it all.


Donald Trump will decide our fate.


What? What's that? 

Oh, we'll fight  will we? It's not over! We...

Yeah, save it. 

Just fucking save it, I'm not interested. The cancer is too far along. 

You personally? Sure, you might have cared enough, but it turns out a lot of those we thought were on our side, those we thought would stand up for their own rights, just ... didn't. Not only didn't, but they appear to have thrown their lot in with Trump and are willing to let Elon Musk, Laura Loomer, RFK Jr, and the local Preacher Man run their lives. A lot of those women I saw in line yesterday? Apparently they did vote away their own rights. 

No, no, I'm not blaming women. I blame Americans, all of us. That's who I blame. 

I'm saying everyone knew what the stakes were, there was a record turnout and somehow 20 million less Americans voted this time and so we decided to reelect a twice impeached serial rapist currently out on bail for more than twenty felony convictions. 

Why? I don't know. The reason doesn't much matter now anyway, does it?

You again? What now?  Trump is going to what now? 

LOL. No. Trump isn't going to jail. You can forget that pipe dream. Those who prosecuted Trump? Odds are, they'll be the ones going to prison.

Merrick Garland? You tell me he had to go slow, etc. Well, he went slow and I'm not a lawyer but I goddamn well know politics and I fucking told you so for whatever that's worth. Merrick Garland might have been right, but he still failed us worse and just as deliberately than any Benedict Arnold. Slow. Fuck me. 

Oh, and all those MAGA insurrectionists Garland did lock up? 

They're free on Jan 20, 2025. With a full pardon. Because if we didn't lock up the guy who led the insurrection, well, then nothing else matters and everything Garland actually accomplished is totally moot, erased, never happened, the guy might as well have never existed. He's a nebbish, history won't even remember his name. 

And again, I did tell you so.

I told you so, but I was just pissing into the wind. 


You already knew. 


You knew. 

I have to laugh at those this morning saying "well, at least we passed abortion protection in..." Oh stop. That's the one legitimately funny bit today. Oh, you passed abortion protection and you're gonna put it in your state Constitution? Hardee har har. Yeah. Trump and these pinched faced religious nuts are going to enact a national abortion ban, yes they are, and whatever your silly little state constitution says means exactly fuck all. What are you gonna do? Appeal it to the Supreme Court? LOL. But hey, take what joy you can this morning, I guess. Laugh it up. You might not get a lot of chances for humor in the future.

We're going to see measles, polio, mumps, and the flu ravage our population again. Preventable diseases that were conquered decades ago are going to kill, blind, sterilize, and main our kids again. Me? I'm getting old, I probably won't survive whatever mismanaged pandemic comes next, unless horse dewormer up your ass actually does work this time.

They're going to drill and mine our national parks and frack our water.

They're going to tear down the wind turbines and solar panels and cook the planet.

They're going to turn the military loose on us and damn posse comitatus. The law and Constitution only matter when you elect people who respect it.

They're going to ban same sex marriage and lock up LGBTQ people as insane, just like the Germans did back in the 1930s, or worse.

They'll round and deport 20 million people and it's going to leave such a massive hole in our economy that we might never recover, but Elon says you'll be fine after a couple of years of hardship. My dear old mom used to say: you can get used to hanging if you hang long enough. We're about to find out just how true that is.

Healthcare? Social Security? Gone. Hope you got plenty of savings to support you in your old age. What's that? Oh. Well, maybe you can sell a kidney then.

They're going to impose tariffs, give tax breaks to billionaires, give Trump direct control of the Fed, and Elon control of everything else, and utterly destroy the economy. The billionaires won't suffer, but you damn sure are going to.

They're going to put guns in every school right next to mandatory Jesus.

However bad you think it's going to be, it'll be worse.


But, you knew that.


Oh sure, eventually, a decade or so down the road, after the recession and the wars and the riots and the violence, just like those who voted for the Third Reich, those who voted for Trump are gonna get screwed by the very rapist they helped elect.

And, you know, I just don't care about that either.

Sure, they'll have it coming, but if I'm still around to witness their comeuppance (an unlikely event to be sure, but maybe I'll get lucky. If you can call living in that world luck) I'll feel neither joy at their misery nor sympathy for their suffering. Fuck 'em.

See, we're all going to get screwed right alongside them, the undeserving and the guilty alike, The Good and the bad Germans both.

Not just us, but all our friends too.

The war in Ukraine is over, Putin won last night. NATO and Europe are next.

The war in Gaza isn't over and won't be for a while, but the outcome is inevitable now. But hey, at least you have your principles, right?

Taiwan? South Korea? Oh well. So sorry. Sucks to be you.

If it's any consolation, it's gonna suck to be us too.


But again, you knew this.

I'm not telling you anything you didn't already know.

We all knew, but for a lot of lefties yesterday, well... here we are.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. You're mad at me now for saying so.

Be mad. It'll keep you warm when the power goes out.

I wish you were mad enough yesterday to show up.

And so here we are.

Trump isn't just going to be president again. He's going to be quite literally a dictator because there is absolutely nothing to hold him back this time. We handed him the White House, the Court, the Legislature, and total immunity. It's not just this latest election, it's all the ones that came before too.

You need to face what that means.

He's going to take revenge on us. He's going to do what he said he would do. He's going to destroy everything you love. You knew that, and it wasn't enough. You're going to have to face it.

Trump is going to burn down the world and maybe that's what it'll finally take.

That's what the far left progressives shouted at me back in 2016: burn it all down. Burn it all down.

Burn it all down. Burning it all down isn't the moral high ground, it's just arson and people die in a fire, but again here we are and careful what you wish for. Because now it is all going to burn and I hope those who started this fire get everything they've got coming to them. And who knows, maybe they're right. Maybe when we're squatting in the ruins, covered ash, maybe then it'll be enough to get you to show the fuck up. Or not.

What should you do? What should any of us do?

I don't know.

I don't know. I'm out of ideas.

I'm old. I'm tired. I'm worn out from this fight. More, I'm worn out from sounding the alarm and watching it fall on deaf ears.

What to do?

Flee maybe. Get out while you can, if there's some place that'll take people who didn't give enough of a fuck about their own fate to change it when they had the chance. Hopefully Europe won't turn away desperate Americans fleeing fascism like we did to the Jews fleeing Germany back in the 1930's. But, hey, if they do, well, you can't really blame them can you?

But, again, again, and again, you knew all this.

Yes, you did. And now? Grim? Depressing? Panic attack? You knew it would come to this if you didn't show up. And it wasn't enough. Why? Why wasn't it enough? What's the excuse this time? Like I said above, I don't know and I don't care, but I'm sure we're going to hear all about it anyway and why those of us who actually did care, who sounded the alarm claxon over and over, and who actually did show up are somehow to blame.

See you in the camps.

I'll be the guy drinking prison wine with Hillary.

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MaryEllenCG
299 days ago
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Greater Bostonia
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DGA51
299 days ago
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I'm old. I'm tired. I'm worn out from this fight. More, I'm worn out from sounding the alarm and watching it fall on deaf ears.
Central Pennsyltucky

Born Rich

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4-panel comic by War and Peas.
Panel 1: A baby in the womb prays, "Please let my parents be rich."
Panel 2: A doctor holds the baby after birth, and the baby says, "Show them to me."
Panel 3: The doctor presents the baby’s new family, revealing the Trump family.
Panel 4: The baby is shocked and says, "Put me back in."

This comic is made possible with the help of our backers on Patreon. Go to War and Peas to read more comics and find all links.

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MaryEllenCG
303 days ago
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Let’s Go

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5-panel comic by War and Peas. Panel 1: The Grim Reaper is sitting at a dinner table with a woman. He says, "Well, yes, the job has some perks." Panel 2: The woman leans forward and asks, "So, if I had - say - an evil ex… you could take care of him?" Panel 3: The Grim Reaper chuckles and replies, "Haha, it doesn't work that way. I can't just—" Panel4: The woman interjects, "He was mean to my dog." Panel 5: The Grim Reaper rises from the table, holding his scythe, and says, "Let's go."

This comic is made possible with the help of our backers on Patreon. Go to War and Peas to read more comics and find all links.

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MaryEllenCG
314 days ago
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Solar Protons

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If any of you want to meet some cool local oxygen atoms, I can introduce you!
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MaryEllenCG
324 days ago
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Greater Bostonia
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